Hello Dmitry,
On Tuesday July 30 2024 00:54, you wrote to me:
MV>> Of course. But it was not always like that after the end of the
MV>> cold war. Remember Glasnost and Perestroyka? Yes, that is gone
MV>> now, but in
DP> Glasnost and Perestroyka was a Soviet thing, in late 80s. It was long
DP> before Putin.
Indeed, long before Putin. But it didn't have to go when the Sovjet Union was
dissolved. If you had voted against Putin when you still could, Glasnost and
Perestroyka might still be here.
DP> However, the country was ill-prepared for such a significant shift.
No country is ever prepared well for such a shift. Yet other countries survived.
France survived the revolution. The USA survived after they kicked the Brittish
out and they survived a civil war. Italy survived the fall of the Roman Empire
and The Netherlands survived when they declared independance from the Spanish
Kingdom.
DP> We lacked people with good economic education
I don't believe that. Russia has produced famous artist and scientists. Don't
try to tell me that there were no economists.
DP> and as a result, the attempt to transition from socialism to a system
DP> akin to that of the Netherlands failed. Many of those experts in government
DP> saw the transformation as an opportunity for personal gain,
DP> and the Soviet Nomenklatura maintained their hold on power.
That a small elite sees a transition as an opportunity for personal gain happens
everywhere. What do you think happened during the so called "Golden Age" in The
Netherlands. BTW, during that "Golden Age" The Netherlands had very good
relations with Russia.
[,, ]
MV>> It was not always like that...
DP> In the 90s, I was too busy working to get involved in politics. I
DP> started working at the age of 13 because my parents couldn't afford to
DP> buy me a modem or pay for phone calls, which were quite expensive and
DP> charged by the minute.
When I was 13, I could not buy a modem because modems didn't exist in 1959. I
already had a modem before Fidonet existed. I didn't buy it, I put it together
myself. IIRC that was around 1978.
DP> I've started to go the protests only in 2006, but it was too late.
This wasn't meant as a personal attack. By "you" I meant the plural, the people
who didn't vote against Putin when they still could.
DP>>> Fidonet was different because it was a democracy :)
MV>> Fidonet is not and never was a democracy.
DP> In Russia, we had Fidonet as a great example of democracy. Many of my
DP> friends still talk about democracy as something from the Fidonet era!
DP> (I'm not joking).
Ha, so there is where it went wrong. You thought Fidonet was a democracy... That
explains a lot... ;-)
DP> Before Fidonet, they had no experience with real elections, or
DP> providing the infrastructure for elections or removing an elected
DP> person from "office".
Not much different from The Netherlands when The King was the ultimate ruler..
DP>>> Russia is always providing very good examples of how not to do
DP>>> things. The previous one was communism, now it's time for a new
DP>>> one :)
MV>> Not "always". 200 years ago Russia was a country not much
MV>> different from the rest of Europe.
DP> In reality, it was quite different. We had actual slavery in place.
DP> The culture may have been the same but it was a culture of the elite.
DP> The average Russian lived like an African slave with no rights, in his
DP> own country.
Not much different from how it was in The Netherlands 200 years ago.
[..]
DP> Interestingly, I now live in London (for the past 1.5 years, since the
DP> war started),
So you left the country in the hands of the Putin supporters...
DP> and there's a pub here where Trotsky, Lenin, and Stalin used to drink
DP> together.
"used to drink together" That sounds like all three were regulars there and met
once a week or so. Nice story that if a wear a pub owner would also try to get
around in order to lure customers.
Cheers, Michiel
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